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Old 12-01-2010, 11:53 AM
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Default Living vs dead water. It is easy.

Hi all.
Some days ago a friend introduced me to a simple water treating technology that can separate water into acidic and alkaline groups. The acidic is the so called dead water and the alkaline water is supposed to be the living water. If you are interested in this, then you absolutely need to read this info:
http://www.ionizers.org/alkaline-water.html
it is absolutely a must read, it explains how and why your body is constantly being in acidic PH levels and how that affects your health. This is very important info IMHO as it might hold the key to curing all diseases. Also it correlates with several OU water technologies out there. I uploaded a diagram of this simple system. You need rectified mains power and two stainless steel electrodes, you can use forks if nothing else is at hand. You need to insulate the positive electrode from the rest of the water using some thigh linnen fabric bag or something similar that will let the current pass, but wont let the two waters mix together. I used a plastic cup and drilled many holes on the perimeter, then I wrapped the cup with paper towel and several layers of thin linnen rope - works great. When you apply the power, some bubbling action will be seen. After some 15 minutes the water should be ready, the positive electrode water will be yellowish or even brown and with PH as low as 1, it might have some chlorine smell to it. The other water can become milky, that stuff needs to be filtered out, that is calcium compound which no longer is dissolved in the water. This water will have PH up to 13, the longer you run the thing the higher the difference. This is then used to drink, several cups a day. So according to the article above we now have a water that is saturated with negative charged OH ions that have a free electron to donate, since a healthy body has everything in balance, such water wont do any harm to it, but it will destroy pathogens. This should be a great way to rejuvenate your body without using any chemicals. I am starting to use it daily now and will report the results, so far everything looks good. The dead water shouldn't be thrown away as it also has some good properties, it is a great disinfectant, you can use it to wash any wounds and they will heal quickly. The dead water should also be used in the mornings to rinse the mouth, is good for the teeth. Also such a procedure removes teeth pains. It is good for the skin on the face to be washed with the dead water first and then with the living water, it makes it smoother and softer. The dead water is also good for headache, drink a half glass of it and the headache will be gone in 30 minutes. And the list goes on. To get back to perfect health you need to rinse your mouth with the dead water in mornings and evenings after meals and right after that drink a half glass of living water.
The living water keeps its charge about 12-24hours since it is negatively charged and almost everything around us emit positive ions.
So does this remind you of something?
What about the miracle mineral? That is a chlorine compound that when activised makes a molecule that has a free electron to donate and supposedly cures all diseases. The same can be made with water and without any chemicals. Also do you remember Joecell? The cells also needed to be charged for several days and retained their charge only for a limited time. Joe talked about charging his cells with negative energy, but no one really understood what he meant by this. I am certain that this is exactly what he meant. Remember Joes secret power supply for precharging water before putting it into the cell? No secrets in that anymore, he had a variac with a rectifier on the output, the positive of the rectifier was dumped in the ground and the negative of the rectifier went to the cell. Well it is now obvious what he did and why so many, including me, have failed. In order to make the joecell work you need to get the water as negatively charged as possible. This should be also super good for the health. So I encourage everyone to experiment with this.
Thanks,
Jetijs
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2010, 03:49 PM
Ted Ted is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

Sounds interesting, I may try it. What voltage range is the best? Are you just rectifying 220 vac? Would a metal cup work since it also passes current, or does the water need to be saturated through a membrane?

Ted
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2010, 03:53 PM
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

Hi Ted,
Yes I rectify 220V with a full bridge rectifier. It really depends on the water you have, some water just barely bubble for a long time and as the water heats up, the conduction also increases and more bubbling and faster water ionization. 110V would also work, but to see better results you would need electrodes closer together.
You know those air ionizers that produce negative ions, that are supposed to be very beneficial to your body? Well, this is the same stuff and can be made easily and very cheap, probably with the stuff you already have laying around. So far seems to work on me, but it is too early to say something conclusive. I have managed to get PH as low as 1.3 and as high as 11. The water is different everywhere. Tap water leaves an aftertaste like you had just eaten a drywall , but if you get a good water, like from a well or spring, either the acidic or alkaline portions of the treated water will be tasteful and with no aftertaste. That is a good water. Very interesting stuff. My goal now is to get a ORP meter that measures water charge in milivolts. Then I will make several experiments to find out how water vortexing, magnetic fields, negative HV affects the charge and which method produces the most negative charge. Will see what that water does. Some russian scientists claim that such a water, mixed with few drops of diesel, will assume the diesel properties and burn the same as diesel, but the effect will last only 12-24 hours. I have to verify this. Also it would be interesting to use such water in a hho cell. Should work without electrolyte since it is already very alkaline and conductive. The best thing about this is that the level of water charge can be simply measured with an ORP meter and we don't have to rely on feelings of energy flows and similar stuff, like all the mess with charging joecells. Will inform you about my results.
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Old 12-01-2010, 04:35 PM
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Aromaz Aromaz is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

I count my blessings! Living on Earth charged underground water (Borehole) with standard average Ph 7.3. It certainly does taste so much better than other sources like bottled. Even noticeable more effective in quenching a thirst..
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Old 12-01-2010, 07:08 PM
sucahyo sucahyo is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

Interesting. I will look forward for your result .

If you look for kangen water (other brand name) you will find video and pdf about its use for green house plant and japanese hospital. Giant healthy plant and quick injury recovery.

For negative ion use, I think you can get more result with radiant circuit as electrolizer.

See if you get boosted power or at least smoother idle by attaching car body to the alkaline water part. If you don't observe it then it is not the same as Joe Cell.

The symptom seems similar with Bob Beck positive disinfectant and negative cell regeneration from silver electrode, although may not be radiating, unlike Joe Cell.

I would prefer the negative electrode stay longer in the water than the positive. Maybe more than 30 second, for negative ion reason. Explanation at zapper and orgone manipulator thread.

Last edited by sucahyo; 12-01-2010 at 07:33 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-03-2010, 01:04 PM
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

Hi all.
Here is the simple water retainer I made:


it is a 70mm PVC tube with holes in it, the bottom part is glued shut. Some layers of paper towel are wraped around it and then several layers of thin linnen rope is wraped around that, this prevents the water from mixing and lets the current pass. You just put the retainer in a biger plastic bucket, fill it and the retainer with water so that water level is an inch or so lower than the top of the retainer, then you put one electrode in the retainer and other in the water outside the retainer.
Tap water when treated has calicum solidified in it as small particles, it needs to be filtered out. Unfortunately paper towels wont filter it out completely, but these small particles settle down over time and the water wont have that drywall taste anymore
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Old 12-05-2010, 01:35 PM
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

Ok, here is an interesting update.
I go to sauna every now and then and usually can last about 20 minutes at a certain temperature, after that my hearth races as hell and I need lots of water to get back on track. Today I went to sauna and was surprised that I could stay there two times longer at the same temperature and could go on even more. My hearth did not race and I didn't even want to drink much after that. Usually this happens to me after the yearly 2 week fasting. Also last night I had three lucid dreams in a row, even one lucid dream is very seldom event. Could this be because of the water I use now? I hope so. It is too early to say for sure, but this is very interesting. I also noticed that I eat a little less than usual.
Today I built a small negative ion generator that uses 20 stage voltage multiplier powered from mains power, it puts out some 5000V of negative voltage at very small current. It was used to produce negative ions in air, but for the heck of it I put the needles in the water. After a hour I took the needles out and shorted out the capacitor array. The water maintained its charge as I got a static shock when I tried to touch it, so I put a wire in it and connected that wire to a water pipe to short it out. There was a static spark. Now the water can be handled. Will see how that works
Thanks,
Jetijs
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:26 PM
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

Hi all.
I have an update. I got me an ORP meter that measures the charge of water from -2000 to +2000mV. The more negative the charge the more alkaline the water is and the more positive the more acidic the water is. So far using electrolysis I got maximum of -400mV on the alkaline water side and max of +700mV on acidic side. The negative charge dissipates after some 12 hours, at first faster and then slower, the negative charge stays the same for several days. I also tried high voltage to charge the water using a simple 22 stage voltage multiplier, it puts out around 5000V at very low current consumption. This also works, but takes some 10x longer to get the water to a decent charge that compares to ordinary electrolysis.
I looked at Kevins water thread on energeticforum and found that magnesium does the same thing. I decided to try that. I took a cup of tap water, its charge was at around +140mV, then I took a magnesium rod that was cleaned from oxide and hydroxide layer before that so that it was nice and shiny. I had to stir the water just for a minute or so and it was already -200mV and kept increasing the negative charge. So we can charge the water much faster and without any electricity and stainless steel electrodes. Also when using stainless steel electrodes, I am not certain if the chromium or other harmful substances don't get in the water as well, making it not so good for drinking. Magnesium solves this issue. I also tried to boil the electrolyzed water to see if boiling will affect the charge level. I was surprised that it did not affect the charge, it was the same after boiling. So this means that you can make tea from the charged water
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:59 AM
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

Here is what came out of all that:
it is not complicated, I machined two plates with a long channel maze in them so that when they are put one on top of another, the channel is parallel. You just stack those acrylic plates together with the membrane between them and put a sheet of stainless steel on the ends so that you have this config:

steel plate>acrylic channel plate>membrane>acrylic channel pate>steel plate.
I use rectifier AC on the plates, that means about 300V DC. The current consumption is about 3A max if the acrylic plates are 12mm thick, the thinner the more close the electrodes will be and the greater current draw. Also the more channels you have, the higher the current draw, but also bigger ionization difference. The water is pumped from the bottom side up through the two parallel channels at the same time, the water passes through the channels and takes the electrolytic gasses along till the output on top. The electrodes are stainless steel, as far as I know the bad stuff from the electrodes like chromium and such gathers only on the positively charged water so that water is not used and it has not much use for health anyway. The membrane is a filter paper made out of some kind of porous plastic that is used in water filters, works very well. Here are some pictures:







And here is a video of this thing in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_lpfdNgVE8
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:27 AM
Ted Ted is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

Hi J,
I have a couple of questions. How do you isolate the two plates electrically with steel bolts holding them together?
Also, I can understand the ions gathering on each side of the membrane, but how do you separate the two flows?

Ted
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  #11  
Old 12-03-2011, 08:56 AM
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

Hi Ted, those bolts are insulated from the plates by a piece of PVC tubing, you can see the tubing on the pictures.
The cell has two plates with channels in them, those two plates are placed next to each other so that the channels of both plates align themselves. But between those channel plates is the membrane that keeps both folws separated just so that only current flows through the membrane but almost no water and thus both flows do not mix. The arrangement is as follows:
Acrylic end plate>soft PVC insulating sheet>SS plate>acrylic channel plate> membrane> acrylic channel plate>SS plate>soft PVC insulating sheet>Acrylic end plate. Some silicon sealer is applied all around the perimeter where stainless steel plate meets acrylic plates.
An aquarium pump pumps water through both channels from the bottom up and out the outlets on each side on top part of the cell. The water needs to flow from bottom up because if you do it the other way around and let the water just flow through the cell from upper side to the bottom out, the electrolysis gasses will block the flow as they tend to float upwards. So the water also is flowing upwards taking all the electrolysis gasses along so that they don't create a blockade. If you have the flow the other way arround, that will work only at low power levels and weak charge separation and ionization. On the other hand, that is easier and you don't need a pump. And to get higher alkalinity of the water you might just let it flow through the cell again removing the acidic water each time
Hope this helps. If something is still unclear, just ask. I am not hiding anything here.
At the moment I am in process of building another cell and I am taking photors and videos of the process so that later I can make a youtube video and show how exactly the cell is made. But unfortunately I have other stuff on my mind right now, don't know when the video will be ready
Jetijs
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Old 12-03-2011, 09:25 AM
Ted Ted is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

Thanks J, that clears things up. I may just build one of these things. Where do you get the membrane material?
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Old 12-03-2011, 09:40 AM
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

I use the material from water filters like this:

You just cut the end caps off and flatten the material and cut out whatever shape you need. So far works very well
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:53 AM
Ted Ted is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

I ordered a couple of stainless steel plates. I'm thinking of using thinner acrylic plates for the channels, 3/8" (approx 8mm), since the mains here are only 120VAC. I could get a trafo but I think the reduced thickness will accomplish the same thing. I'll have to make a jig to hold the plates in my Milling machine.
Why do you use a layer of soft PVC for an insulator?
I was also toying with the idea of using two pumps, one for each channel, so I could recirculate the water. Do you think there is any point in this?
I noticed in the info page you referenced that this device will separate out the fluoride in the water as an added bonus. I like that.
Nice work J, as usual your craftsmanship is top notch. I see you built a number of these units, Christmas presents?


Cheers,

Ted
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:57 AM
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

Hi Ted,
The soft PVC is there only to seal off the other side of the SS plate since I use the SS plates from my hho experiments and they have some holes in them which are not needed for making ionized water, the PVC just covers them so that no water leaks out on the other side. As for two pumps, I don't think you need that because the power is more than enough to bring the PH up to 10.5 and that is the most I could get when I experimented with the simple setup using plastic bucket and a holed plastic pipe wrapped with linnen thread. I don't think that higher PH is even needed. One pump will do the job just fine and you will have two equal water flows. As for the fluoride, I think that such a device will do that just fine. In our country they do not add fluoride to water so we do not have that problem, but still, if the water has any kind of dissolved minerals in it, calcium for example, it will solidify in a powder when it comes out of the cell since the PH increases and that makes all the dissolved minerals become solid. The output water is misty, firstly because of the large amount of small h2 bubbles, but as they float up to the surface the water will still be a bit milky, but those solids settle to the bottom over several hours or can be just filtered out using a fine filter. If you start with a good water without any minerals in it, it will also come out clear. This same happens if you increase the PH chemically, like I did to get the ormus out of water. I dissolved large amounts of salt in the water and added some NaOH to increase the PH to 10.8 and the water turned milky and that white stuff eventually settled on the bottom and could be collected. If you pour some acid in that water, you will see that as the PH goes down, the white powder will disapear since it dissoves back into water. I think that the same happens with flouride.
I kave made 6 cells so far and they are given away to interested people for testing purposes. They all experience some benefits from it. Another thing that I noticed was that I had some problems with knees, as I stepped down the stairs, you could hear a loud crack on every step, sometimes it was so loud that everyone else could hear that. Since I use the water, the cracks have become way quieter and I can hardly hear them. I think that those bone problems are slowly going away since the body does not need to take calcium from the bones anymore to counteract the acidity of my body
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:15 AM
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

I used 12mm channel plates, that means a total of 24mm between the plates. This made the cell consume about 2.5A at 300VDC, so I calculated that 24mm of water has a resistance of 120 Ohms (at least if you have the same channle lengths and size as I have). So if this can be scaled lineary that means that per each milimeter you will get 5 ohms of resistance per milimeter. If you have 8mm channel plates, this means a total of 16mm between steel plates, so that is 80 Ohms, so at rectified 120VAC you will get around 150VDC.
So at 150V and 80 Ohms you will have 1.875A of current flow, which will get you a water with a PH around 9.5 to 10. I would use more power, 3A would be good, but this can be achieved als by increasing the length of the channels thus increasing the surface area and the time the water is treated. My channels are 3mm wide and a total of 1.88m long, see if you can squeeze longer channels in your acrylic plate.
Another thing, the water has 8mm plastic inlets and outlets on each channel plate, they are glued in a drilled hole in the width of the plate. If you use thinner plates, a problem might be to get the water in and out of the channels through thickness of the plate. The thinnest plates I have tried are 10mm and the water inlets/outlets with 8mm diameter, that leaves only 1mm of space on each side of the hole. That is as thight as I can go using these plastind fittings. Maybe you can also use 10mm plates but increase the surface area where the water contacts the steel, bigger plates with longer channels would be advisable if you have no way of increasing the voltage. My cell size 150mm x 200mm. And consumes around 900w as the water flows through it.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:33 AM
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

This is how my channel plates look like:
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:13 PM
Ted Ted is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

I thought about the inlet issue, and decided to go in through the side of the plate instead of the end. I'm also planning on making the plates larger (12 x 18 inches) in order to gain a longer channel.
I have a 2-1 trafo if I need it, so voltage is not an issue. I just don't want the weight and bulk of it on the unit.
This should be a fun project, I'm looking forward to it.

Thanks,

Ted
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Old 12-04-2011, 12:34 PM
Jetijs Jetijs is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

If you drill into the thickness of the acrylic plate, be sure to compress that part of the plate between two other plates of wood or plastic using a vice or something like that, because the area where you are going to drill gets very brittle and can break easily, especially if the inlet/outlet fittings are close in diameter to the plate thickness. I broke two suck plates with all the hard part already done just by drilling the inlet holes without the compressed supports
3 hours of work gone
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Old 12-08-2011, 07:31 AM
Ted Ted is offline
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Default Re: Living vs dead water. It is easy.

I use a Forestner bit to drill into acrylic, which makes a very clean hole and doesn't have a tendency to grab the material like standard twist bits do.
I'm planning on milling the two plates together so the slots line up correctly. I'll screw them down to a piece of wood as a backer plate, then attach the wood to the table. What is the width of your slots?
I wish I had a turret punch for the stainless. Did you mill or drill your holes?
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