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  #21  
Old 03-03-2011, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaMonkey View Post
Battery discussions are always interesting.

Solid electrolyte batteries fall within that category.

While these batteries cannot produce much electrical
power and are very inefficient, they do demonstrate
a device which should have a fairly long lifetime.

For the "solid electrolyte" matrix several compounds
may be used: slaked lime to make "mortar"; plaster
of paris (sets up quickly so be fast!); and of course
portland cement.

The "solid electrolyte" is a compound which solidifies
into solid mass by incorporating much water of
crystallization. So while the solid seems dry, it is
actually full of water within its crystalline structure.

It is in essence a "semiconductor." Dopants are added
to provide the necessary chemical qualities to intereact
with the embedded metallic electrodes and to permit
ion flow throughout the "solid" hydrated mass.

Is it any different from any of the other batteries?

Not really. The same chemical reactions take place which
result in electrical current - they are just vastly slowed
down.

Are there other inexpensive alternatives which will
produce usable electrical energy much more efficiently?

Yes, one of the least expensive of which is the aluminum
chloride/aluminum cell. It can be fashioned into a form of
Daniell Cell (Look Here.)

Solid "Dry" cells are an interesting curiousity and a great
stepping stone to the other much more productive
"chemistries" which are good to know about for emergency
considerations.
why do you consider dry electrolyte batteries inefficient?

How long should one last?

Why do you think adding alum salt seems to stop any galvanic action on the cell?

Why does their power output vary with temperature?

I only ask because you seem to know a lot about batteries..
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  #22  
Old 03-03-2011, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
Good luck, let us know how it goes
Lol, just found that my cement is water proof, will try to force it. Thanks, I will let you know .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
why do you consider dry electrolyte batteries inefficient?
Lol interesting question. what is being wasted .
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  #23  
Old 03-04-2011, 01:51 PM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquorate View Post
why do you consider dry electrolyte batteries inefficient?

How long should one last?

Why do you think adding alum salt seems to stop any galvanic action on the cell?

Why does their power output vary with temperature?

I only ask because you seem to know a lot about batteries..

You ask very good questions:

(a) These kinds of "dry electrolyte" cells are inefficient
because of their high internal resistance. The "dry" matrix
which supports the slowed chemical reactions produces
a performance "trade-off." In exchange for a very long
life efficiency is sacrificed.

(b) It is hard to know how long one of these cells could
last. Possibly quite a long time. Eventually, the metals
in the two electrodes will deteriorate and the cell will
expire. Generally, the more active metal (the negative
electrode) is consumed as the cell is used.

(c) Adding the alum may prevent excessive "galvanic
action" which would consume the electrodes when the
battery isn't being used to provide power to a load.
Choosing (or discovering) an electrolyte mix which has
just the right pH to produce good galvanic action for
long battery life is always a challenge.

(d) Semiconductor materials and certain chemical reactions
work best when heated. Batteries in general tend to
perform poorly when too cold. In the case of the dry
electrolyte cells there is a more pronounced sensitivity
to warmth; they will work better when warmed.

These kinds of cells are best suited for use in very remote
locations where a little power is needed for some purpose
for a very long (months or years) time. Until someone has
actually monitored such a cell's performance to find its useful
lifetime we'll not know with any certainty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post

Lol interesting question. what is being wasted .
The high internal resistance of the cell which limits the
amount of current which can be drawn without reducing
the cell voltage too much. To achieve any sort of useful
efficiency this cell must power a relatively high resistance
load (several times greater than the cell's internal resistance.)

Has anyone yet measured the internal resistance of one of
these cells? It's a fairly easy procedure.
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  #24  
Old 03-05-2011, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

@seamonkey you bring up some interesting points, and when my batch of alum salts comes i'll make some zinc copper borax and paper towel batteries (keeping them in humid in their own bottles): one without alum, two with. The two with, i'll keep at different temperatures ( one alum and one non alum in fridge ) the other outside fridge

if i can get them to run a solar garden light led at all same brightness using potentiometers, the long term outcome should prove informative.
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  #25  
Old 03-05-2011, 05:46 AM
sucahyo sucahyo is offline
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

You think nimh less efficient than nicd, Seamonkey? Crystal battery work by corrosion?

btw, I dont have can yet but when I mix diluted alum I have to portland cement, for other experiment, I smell urine....
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  #26  
Old 03-05-2011, 10:47 AM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
You think nimh less efficient than nicd, Seamonkey? Crystal battery work by corrosion?
The NiCd has some advantages which make it
a good choice for certain applications. It does
have a tendency to develop "short circuits" in
cells due to dendrites and must be periodically
"blasted" with a high current pulse to clear them
out.

I find the NiMH to be better for my uses which
aren't too demanding. They're less likely to
develop shorted cells and have a higher capacity
for a given cell size.

The NiCd is probably a bit more efficient than the
NiMH for most users.

Yes, the "crystal battery" does work by a chemical
action which is similar to corrosion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
btw, I dont have can yet but when I mix diluted alum I have to portland cement, for other experiment, I smell urine....
Hmmmm. That is odd. There must be some sort
of reaction taking place with the chemicals...

What have you discovered??
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  #27  
Old 03-05-2011, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Thanks for the info. You disagree with bedini then?

I hear hiss when I pour it. It seems the NH3 is released.
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  #28  
Old 03-06-2011, 03:08 PM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
You disagree with bedini then?

I do disagree with Bedini on some things. I'm not
familiar with his beliefs regarding these solid
electrolyte batteries though.

Can you elaborate?
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  #29  
Old 03-06-2011, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Result after adding my mysterious soluble crystal, blue tainted which appear to be copper sulfate:



Seamokey, here are Bedini posts:
http://www.energeticforum.com/132205-post264.html
Quote:
I want to explain a little about these cells.
The cell Chuck and I showed in the video did not show any kind of life when I first mixed the Cement Calcium Carbonate and Alum together as I always check the voltage in a wet condition to check for shorts. The mix was simple but I have allot to say about Alum. Alum seems to go thought some kind of change when it is heated in the oven. It seems to not only give the cell power but it also recovers very fast in the crystal form. In the carbon Graphite Cell it acts as it's own depolarizer with the two metals at the same time protecting the metals being used.
http://www.energeticforum.com/132238-post270.html
Quote:
The important thing is to grind the rocks up to a power and then add some pieces if you want. I do not believe John H cracking up rocks does anything as I have done it both ways and it makes no difference. In fact the straight Chemicals work the best so I don't believe it's the Casmir effect either as it could not power a flee up a tree. I have been noticing Gravity Waves in cycles appearing in my charts under load. This device is something more then what we think.
http://www.energeticforum.com/132290-post277.html
Quote:
I've tried to explain that the Casmir effect is not responsible for this energy and if you calculate it you could not collect enough at the posts to do anything with it let alone power a little motor, it's something else doing the separation of charges, Three things, Gravity Waves or Infrared or Ionic transfer being converted here, I would say Gravity Waves or Ionic transfer at this point. I only say this because of the charting and it keeps changing from day to day, like the moon going through phases. Nature seems to be very controlled here. These cells are nothing more then Solid State devices, because they have a high state of ions going through pathways, it known as solid state electrolytes. The book Modern Batteries will explain all of this it's on line at google books.
http://www.energeticforum.com/132327-post283.html
Quote:
I have just seen what is powering the Crystal Cell. I came back to work to look at the chart I have been running I watched the curve all the way down to .851 volts but I noticed that the heat had been turned down in the shop and that cell corresponded to the temperature in the room. That is great news because not only is it detecting Gravity waves it is also generating energy from Inferred heat in the surrounding room an engineers dream come true. I then took a heater and heated the cell and I could watch the recorder change the voltage and it popped right back up to the same voltage. Next I'm letting it go back to room temperature and it is falling back to .851 volts so now I know what it is and how to work with it. you can do the same experiment and watch it on your volt meter, just use your hands to warm the can.
http://www.energeticforum.com/132375-post299.html
Quote:
But we must get them to at least .500Ma at a solid state level. This cell is a Ionic transfer cell with dry chemicals I know that some may have a hard time with this but, this is the way it works. The cement has what would be called pockets developed in it as it is curing in these pockets you want Ionic material mixed with it. What charges batteries is the ions moving between the plates, moving the ions are electrons, if you want to call them that. But the cells we are building not only reacts to heat (inferred) and cold and gravity waves but it moves it's own ions between the metals causing the current and voltage. If the mix is right you will see 1.5 volts to 2 volts at .500Ma after the mix is dry. If you start drawing current when wet the pathways could be damaged because of the galvanic action. I found all these thing out by trying all the experiments. Nature has this cell very well controlled as far as solid state goes. This is all a matter of depositing a material with many Ions in it so they are free to move between the terminals through holes and pathways. When testing these cells you must wait until semi dry, the reason for the oven. Look folks this is very advanced, and battery companies do not want this kind of stuff so most solid state batteries stay locked up in a lab somewhere. I think your right Lidmotor it going to be a good one. we just need the right material mixed for the crystals.
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  #30  
Old 03-07-2011, 04:37 PM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Thanks Sucahyo for the links and quotes to
Bedini's thoughts on the matter.

No, I don't fully agree with Bedini's
speculations and conclusions;
I believe it is simple electro-chemistry.

De-polarizers are a necessity for most primary
cell chemistries to remove the hydrogen which
is generated at the positive electrode. Unless
the hydrogen is removed (by recombination with
oxygen to form water) it will interfere with the
current flow and cause current to drop off to a
very small quantity until the hydrogen dissipates.

Copper Oxide will work as a de-polarizer in these solid
cells. In fact, copper oxide is used as an oxidizer
in certain explosive mixtures.

There are some primary cell chemistries which
work differently but in those cases the power
produced in the cells is very slight. They're used
mainly for laboratory voltage reference cells and
are not really intended to power any load.

The solid electrolyte cells are fun to play with and
will indeed seem to be almost "magical" in how
they function. But, in order to produce significant
quantities of voltage and current (power) the more
conventional cells must be used.

It is very easy to make "wet cells" with aluminum foil
and carbon rods (from old flashlight cells) which can
easily power a transistor radio in an emergency
situation. Several cells must be series connected to
get the 6 or more volts needed by the radio or other
device.
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  #31  
Old 03-07-2011, 06:53 PM
sucahyo sucahyo is offline
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Thanks Seamonkey. Agree that crystal battery has very little power.


My battery latest condition:
- 1.25V open
- >>0.5mA at 0.95V.
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  #32  
Old 03-08-2011, 12:23 AM
sucahyo sucahyo is offline
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Update. Since I don't have something to deplete the crystal battery, I just attach my analog amp meter which kept indicating more than 0.5 mili Amp. However the voltage now drop from previous 0.95 volts to 0.5 volts. Let see if it can drop to zero volts tomorrow.
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  #33  
Old 03-08-2011, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

You're giving it a good test to see how well it performs
with a continuous "heavy" loading.

If you disconnect your "load" for several hours to let the
solid cell "rest" it should "recover" to some extent and be
able to deliver the load current at the higher voltage
first observed for a time. But, it will drop off as you've
already observed.

It will indeed be interesting to see how long it will function!
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  #34  
Old 03-08-2011, 05:16 PM
sucahyo sucahyo is offline
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Yes.

I try detaching load not in hours but in seconds:
Youtube - Crystal battery metering, bouncing volts


After overnight it show 0.3 mili amps and 0.3 volts. When the amp meter is detached for some seconds, the voltage rise quickly to 0.7Volts and when attached again the amp start at 0.5 miliamp then steadily drop to 0.3 mili amp.
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  #35  
Old 03-09-2011, 03:22 PM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Just sharing a quote from john bedini because i agree and believe this is where the power may be coming from in these batteries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John_Bedini View Post
Everybody should look at this like an energy dam just like a dam on a river. You need to tap into that river. One could look at this like a storage capacitor on one side blocking the flow except through energy channels through the semiconductor material, photons kick off electrons which flow through the channels to the opiate plate. The Sodium Silicate and the Strontium titanium oxide to form the collection, the rest is a big rectifier which allows electrons one way. So what your building is a one way gating valve converting ambient energy that is everywhere. No high voltage needed in this device that I have found. I have studied Marcus Reid and John H, these two people are very tricky in what they say. For some reason which is beyond me they want no replication, but I do. ... We also find that Iron sulfide has been used for years for radio crystals converting the signal and then all research stopped, why?...
John B
@ sucahyo thanks for sharing: repeated consistent load tests are very important.
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  #36  
Old 03-09-2011, 05:06 PM
sucahyo sucahyo is offline
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Thanks Ben, that is interesting.

About material, Bedini suggest us to heat the copper until it goes black to get CuO. I wonder why we cannot use charger?

If we use electrolysis CuO should form if we apply positive voltage to copper.

I also wonder how crystal form in nature. If it is because of electricity then applying high voltage but without touching the electrode may be a good way to rectify the alum crystal while drying up.

Second day of loading, 0.23 mili Amp, 0.194 volts.
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  #37  
Old 03-09-2011, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Good question.

Many metallic oxides and sulfides are used in various
pyrotechnic mixtures. In fireworks the naturally produced
compounds always produce the very best effect. It seems
that certain compounds which are produced by natural means
(heat, fire and burning) are more energetic.

Those same compounds which are synthesized by chemical
reaction or electrolytic reaction, although chemically identical
in "formula" just do not work the same in fireworks.

It's one of those things which doesn't seem to make any
sense to chemists and scientists.

Perhaps in the case of the solid electrolyte cell the manner
in which the copper oxide is produced is most important?
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  #38  
Old 03-11-2011, 05:10 PM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

YouTube - Copper Oxide Rectifier with Magnesium and Alum water ready for use in Crystal cell.wmv
http://m.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&war...&v=d3U4Hm5ODBM
YouTube - Copper Oxide Rectifierpositive with Galina Lead Sulfide pbso4 negitive powering osilator circuit
http://m.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&war...&v=-CQbBbmAX2Q
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  #39  
Old 03-15-2011, 04:26 AM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Quote:
Originally Posted by sucahyo View Post
... And be carefull Ben, I highly believe that crystal battery may have bad effect on human, at least on emotion / mind health. I found that plaster cement, coil and alum produce bad effect, crystal made it worse. Be sure to place the crystal battery away from your family.
thanks for the warning sucahyo. I don't see how that would happen, as the crystal battery seems to halt galvanic exchange and instead acts like a broad spectrum diode, turning not just RF spectrum but light, heat, magnetic flare from sun, etc into electron energy that permits the created electrons movement through ionic chains. Or that is my understanding; the battery absorbs, and does not emit.

When my ammonium aluminium sulfate arrives i will keep your observation in mind though.
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  #40  
Old 03-15-2011, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: Bedini's non-galvanic earth battery and open field joule thief circuit

Thank you. I am not talking about the effect of any energy that you mention. I think the strength is small, but may have strong influence on correct place.

Some sign you should watch for:
- temperature feel hot even when thermometer indicate same value, mentioned not by you.
- more frequent nightmare or restless night or hard to sleep
- high temper inside the house
- no birds chirp anymore
- cloudy all day long but no rain
- foggy sky but clear ground


I am not talking about spiritual effect here. Not ghost or psychic event, but I think it is the same thing Bedini mention can be produced by his ferris wheel, by geometry.

If you already experiencing the above even before creating crystal battery, then it can be worse. I already mention the solution before.

I mention this because I think this can influence your miss health. It influence my miss. If your crystal battery do not produce effect as I mention above then I am relieve.




On experiment, guess what I did to my crystal battery , mute it on play, I forgot to turn off mic:
Youtube - Crystal battery - increased voltage with load

The battery voltage drop from 0.440V to 0.164V when loaded with amp meter but then steadily rise its current and voltage, now at 0.25mili Amp and 0.236V, beginning at 0.15 mili Amp and 0.164V.

Look like the battery gaining charge with load, and now the same battery has double output current . Can you guess what I did to the battery ?
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